Thursday, April 30, 2009

Project stalled for reasons beyond our control

Bad news. With my bad luck in finding a job, the current flu epidemic and having to deal with an unexpected depression (mostly based on my economic situation), I can't keep working on Saya until I get my life back.

So the project is stalled and the meetings are suspended until further notice (which I hope will be in a couple of months in the best case).

I hope to come back soon with good news.


Monday, April 6, 2009

Saya Developers' meeting #6 (28/03/2009) Summary of Activities

This is a brief summary about what has been discussed in the fifth Saya-VE developers meeting.

About the team:

* Agustin has not been seen since the last meeting. We're assumming that he just left the team.

* This happened after the meeting. I got an email from another volunteer wanting to join. I let him experiment with the latest snapshot of our current code in the meantime.

* Due to his good work so far, Alex was given write access to the SVN repository.

About the tasks:

* The Qt conversion is around 60% done. The welcome dialog is completed, the new project dialog layout is done (C++ implementation pending). The playback controls still need to be adapted into the video player.

* Tasks for Rick (me): Since I couldn't advance at all this month (workload / health reasons) I still have to convert the main window and the video playback controls.

* Tasks for Lubomir: Write the developers' guide for Windows (it needs to be changed as now we use Qt, not wxWidgets). He had some technical problems writing them, but he's working on it.

* Tasks for Brad: Get to compile Saya on Windows with Qt, and help Lubomir in doing so.

* Tasks for Alex: Study more Qt, play around with the code.

* Tasks for Rigo: Implement in C++ the new project dialog that he had designed; write a market-oriented "mission statement" document.

Other Issues worth discussing:

* Jeff found a blog entry about Video Editing. Basically we agreed with the blog entry in that there are currently not working user-friendly video editors.

About the next meeting:

* The next meeting will take place on Saturday, May 2, 2009, 11AM CDT (-0600).

Saya Developer's meeting #6 (28/03/2009) chat log

* Now talking on #saya-dev
<rick_777> This meeting is officially open.
<RigoCalleja> * BANG *
<rick_777> heh
<RigoCalleja> first task assigment status?
<rick_777> First of all, i'd like to apologize for my lack of work. This month I couldn't do anything. zip. nada. zero.
<rick_777> (I got too much work, then i got sick, then i went on vacations)
<RigoCalleja> you had the conversion to QT assigment
<rick_777> Well I guess that's still pending from my part, but I'll resume work this week :)
<rick_777> Rigo, what task was assigned to you?
<RigoCalleja> k
<RigoCalleja> new project dialog
<rick_777> status?
<RigoCalleja> status: done
<rick_777> Cool!
<rick_777> Have you uploaded to SVN yet?
<RigoCalleja> yup
<rick_777> ok... who's next?
<mau5> i'm done with the gmerlin document
<rick_777> Alright! Please send it to the mailing list.
<mau5> and that demo application; mixing bewteen qt and gmerlin
<rick_777> hmmm about the application, just mail us the source code (zipped)
<mau5> yes, it needs a review
<rick_777> oh wait, you're using gmerlin...
<rick_777> well send your code anyway.
<mau5> i send it few weeks ago
<rick_777> Good :)
<mau5> it's uploaded on the saya gmail group
<RigoCalleja> SeekerAll.tar.gz ?
<mau5> yes
<rick_777> Ok... (man, I feel disoriented after not doing anything for a while)
<RigoCalleja> don't worry
<RigoCalleja> you'll be back in business
<mau5> i will upload the document now
<RigoCalleja> Ok let's move on to the next team member
<LubomirD> Me: I'm still not done with the developers guide: I still could not compile Saya, so I could'n write a normal guide. I had a lot of mess with it.
<rick_777> Ok, I'll help you with it then
<LubomirD> Thank you
<rick_777> I'm afraid that we're stuck in a bottleneck and that bottleneck is finishing the Qt conversion.
<RigoCalleja> sort of
<brad_gar> I almost have saya compiled on windows, I think I have the wrong version of Qt as I'm getting a moc error or something to that effect
<RigoCalleja> but We're also making enablement progress
<rick_777> I guess that what we can do now is finish the conversion (and the dev. guide) and when we're finished, we'll mail you the new tasks, if any.
<brad_gar> just downloaded the latest from the sdk, not the 4.4.3 version
<mau5> @brad: try qt 4.4.3
<rick_777> Yes, it seems there are no problems with qt 4.5.
<RigoCalleja> Brad: feel free to join Lubomir and Rich if you need to
<brad_gar> k
<rick_777> I spoke with brad and his only problem so far is downloading and installing gettext and the libintl library on windows.
<brad_gar> got that working!
<rick_777> oh?
<rick_777> So you managed to compile Saya, or stumbled on another problem?
<brad_gar> yup
<rick_777> yup compile, or yup stumbled?
<brad_gar> now its telling me that the Qt moc is too different, so I think downloading the 4.4.3 version should fix that
<rick_777> hmmm
<rick_777> i guess you should install 4.4.3
<brad_gar> just ran out of time yesterday
<rick_777> 4.5 is out, but it didn't go mainstream yet.
<rick_777> we'll need some time before it's present in all repos.
<rick_777> linux distro repositories, i mean.
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> so for now we'll stick to 4.4.3
<rick_777> Well, I guess that's all we can do for now
<rick_777> (bummer)
<rick_777> now
<rick_777> I recall there were some issues worth discussing, right rigo?
<rick_777> something about a blog
<RigoCalleja> can you repeat your task assigment approach for these month Rich please?
<rick_777> Ok
<rick_777> our task assignment:
<nekohayo> goddamnit, I was at the restaurant O_o is the meeting over?
<LubomirD> you cando this with the moc problem :) instead: #elif Q_MOC_OUTPUT_REVISION != 59 you have to put #elif Q_MOC_OUTPUT_REVISION != 61
<rick_777> brad: please help lubomir compile on windows. I feel there's some potential synergy in you two
<rick_777> nekohayo: Not yet :)
<RigoCalleja> what's up Jeff
<brad_gar> will do!
<rick_777> lubomir: Go on with finishing the developer's guide.
<nekohayo> hey there folks :)
<LubomirD> yes
<rick_777> hi Jeff
<rick_777> Alex: I hate to say this, but i think that we're stuck and you have no pending jobs for now... you can still try to analyse the source :)
<nekohayo> hey there rick_777, RigoCalleja, and all others, sorry for being late
<RigoCalleja> not to worry
<rick_777> I guess it's the same for Rigo
<mau5> no problem
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> But hey, better have extra devs than having extra job and no devs :)
<RigoCalleja> can you give us feedback on the status of the conversion please?
<rick_777> Ok, the status of the conversion is... the same that it was last month with the exception of the New Project dialog.
<RigoCalleja> elaborate?
<rick_777> Ok...
<RigoCalleja> just as a reminder
<rick_777> let's see...
<rick_777> the debuglog is finished and operational.
<rick_777> the resources/effects panel is in progress, but the window / splitter is working, and it can be docked.
<RigoCalleja> anything else?
<rick_777> the enabling / disabling of menu items is nearly finished ( the labels menu is unfinished)
<rick_777> The Saving and Loading of window layout is finished and operational.
<rick_777> the video playback controls are working (the UI part) but we still need to incorporate the video output.
<rick_777> the timeline is at 0%, just as it was before the conversion :)
<RigoCalleja> OK if I can help you with some of that please let me know
<rick_777> the new project dialog...
<nekohayo> this is all in svn 272 I guess
<RigoCalleja> is it Rich?
<rick_777> i gues, let me see if i can update my SVN copy.
<rick_777> kdesvn
<rick_777> oops wrong window
<RigoCalleja> Ok Jeff you turn, what did you this month?
<nekohayo> uh, I flamed?
<RigoCalleja> we worked on a proposal for a vision document
<RigoCalleja> based on the basic unified process template
<RigoCalleja> and information from the mission document
<nekohayo> well, basically, Rigo worked on it
<rick_777> (Also, the new project dialog seems to be finished at designing, but it's not incorporated yet)
<rick_777> Before we go on to that document...
<RigoCalleja> are you taking it or passing that task to me?
<rick_777> Rigo, mind giving me a hand with the new project dialog? I'd like you to incorporate it into the source code (i.e. compile the UI file into a c++ file, modify the events so that a new project can be created using the UI)
<nekohayo> RigoCalleja: you mean the .doc you sent me?
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> ok, so what's about this doc
<RigoCalleja> yes that one Jeff
<rick_777> please update us
<nekohayo> rigo started writing a more marketing-oriented mission statement
<RigoCalleja> Jeff and I went through the mission document
<rick_777> cool
<RigoCalleja> exactly
<rick_777> but why .doc? why not opendocument?
<nekohayo> instead of a technical rebuttal of other approaches
<nekohayo> rick_777: I would have asked the same question :)
<nekohayo> but I guess it was not on purpose
<RigoCalleja> so we have only started working on it
* brad_gar has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<RigoCalleja> when we have something we'll share for comments
<nekohayo> RigoCalleja: I'm looking at the document right now
<rick_777> Ok. So, Rigo and Jeff, you keep working on that document. By the way...
<nekohayo> my take is that 1) you had all the essentials of it filled in nicely already 2) the feature list == the roadmap, no need to do it
<rick_777> you might find Google Docs interesting. You can work on the same document at the same time.
<nekohayo> so I thought it seemed ready
<RigoCalleja> good idea Rich
<nekohayo> yeah, I used google docs a lot. but then, as I said, I believe that document to be pretty much ready anyway
<rick_777> So I guess Rigo has a double task this month: Working on the New Project dialog...
<rick_777> and finishing that document.
<RigoCalleja> k
<RigoCalleja> In adition
<RigoCalleja> Jeff shared a link to a blog
* brad_gar has joined #saya-dev
<RigoCalleja> to a person that's is knowedgable about video editors
<brad_gar> back
<nekohayo> eugenia?
<RigoCalleja> she basically reaches the same conclusion as Rich
<RigoCalleja> exactly
<rick_777> welcome back brad
<RigoCalleja> that current GNU/Linux editors are hard to use
<nekohayo> not so sure that she reaches the same conclusions as rick.
<RigoCalleja> lack features
<rick_777> Rigo passed me the link... let me see if i have it around.... nope, lost it.
<nekohayo> oh, on that point yeah
<RigoCalleja> Jeff do you mind sharing to the list?
<nekohayo> I guess you meant
<rick_777> yes, that one
<nekohayo> eugenia is one of the founders of and a Vegas user like me
<nekohayo> the mockup that she shows in that blog post is STRONGLY influenced by vegas
<rick_777> hmmm that means that if we get saya to work fine, and make it rock solid as she wants,
<rick_777> we could get a boost on publicity ;-)
<nekohayo> you'll have to beat pitivi and kdenlive to that game :)
<rick_777> for kdenlive i have no worries. It's not rock solid :P
<RigoCalleja> Jeff and I identified those projects as important contenders
<nekohayo> sure, but neither is saya-trunk ;)
<rick_777> What "worries" me is pitivi, with all the extra help they're really adding a lot of features
<rick_777> but competition is good :)
<rick_777> Also, I've been surfing around blogs, and the Openshot video editor (the other guy who started a project around the same time as me),
<rick_777> switched from GStreamer/GNonlin to MLT (same as kdenlive)
<nekohayo> well, that one didn't sound quite serious, but I haven't checked its progress lately
<rick_777> I guess the design choice to make Saya framework-independent was a good one.
<rick_777> Now we can be sure that gnonlin isn't reliable as a video editing framework.
<RigoCalleja> gnonlin?
<rick_777> A gstreamer add-on for video editing
<RigoCalleja> thnkx
<RigoCalleja> ok are there adittional comments?
<rick_777> Ok, I guess that is all for now... any comments?
<rick_777> heh, you beat me
<nekohayo> rick_777: and how can you be sure it isn't reliable?
<rick_777> Jeff: From the OpenShot author's comments about it
<nekohayo> in my case, it is more reliable than kdenlive ;) and I throw lots of bug reports/weird test cases at the devs
<rick_777> let me link you to it.
<nekohayo> sure
<nekohayo> pitivi is currently the only video editor in the world (except imovie) that can handle my camcorder's files
<rick_777> I guess that blog post is becoming a flamebait, which is good for analysing pros/cons from a 3rd person point of view.
<nekohayo> interesting
<nekohayo> the first comment is from the developer of pitivi and gnonlin
* nekohayo reads the blog post
<RigoCalleja> why don't you share your comments on the blog post to the list Jeff?
<nekohayo> *if* I have something relevant to say
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> Ok...
<rick_777> i guess there are no more comments for now
<RigoCalleja> one more
<RigoCalleja> team
<RigoCalleja> guy from india?
<rick_777> it seems his willpower is not enough to come to the meetings :)
<RigoCalleja> and Agustin from Spain?
<rick_777> same about him... haven't heard of him in the month.
<RigoCalleja> k
<RigoCalleja> no more comments here
<rick_777> but right now we're back to the 5 devs + 1 beta tester, and that's not bad
<rick_777> I think our team is complete for now.
<nekohayo> wait a sec
<rick_777> yes?
<nekohayo> ah, it's 23 PM in india. Thought it was later than that
<nekohayo> anyway
<rick_777> yes?
<nekohayo> reading through the blog post, to begin with, mp3 support works... if you uninstall the fluendo mp3 codec package in ubuntu (stupid thing. I bugged the pitivi devs about that, but for "political" reasons, they can't blacklist it). Second, diva never switched from gstreamer+gnonlin to mlt
<nekohayo> diva just *died* when the dev underwent burnout
<nekohayo> the rest is answered by bilboed
<rick_777> I see.
<RigoCalleja> one thing
<rick_777> Oh man, we have so much ahead of us. We still haven't got to the point of really editing videos...
<rick_777> but a long journey always starts with one step!
<nekohayo> ... ;)
<rick_777> Ok. Any more comments, anyone?
<RigoCalleja> one more
<RigoCalleja> Alex access to the repo
<rick_777> mind rephrasing that please?
<RigoCalleja> we were probably going to give him access this time
<rick_777> Oh
<rick_777> Right.
<rick_777> let me scroll back.
<nekohayo> rick_777: and what about this decentralized version control system migration ?
<mau5> do you mean git?
<rick_777> Jeff: Still pending, sorry.
<nekohayo> bazaar is on my mind
* nekohayo hates git for various reasons :)
<rick_777> yes, from Jeff's comments, bazaar is much more friendly than git
<nekohayo> this whole "commit access" thing sounds crazy when you are blocking other devs "because I'm still converting everything to QT myself"
<rick_777> wait, that wasn't the reason for blocking access...
<nekohayo> I thought it was part of the reason
<nekohayo> the other being the "prove your worth before getting access"
<rick_777> yes. And for that I'll give Alex write access.
<RigoCalleja> k
<nekohayo> in a DVCS, natural selection occurs. code happens. and when it's good, it is merged
<rick_777> Well, I still don't think it's the right moment to change the version control system.
<rick_777> sorry.
<nekohayo> your call
<RigoCalleja> I'll add a research task tough
<mau5> good git overview..
<RigoCalleja> great thanks Alex
<mau5> i just heard about bazar, but dont know anything
* nekohayo has a huge .txt file of notes about the hoops he has to go through to switch branches/update a branch in git :)
<nekohayo> holy crap
<nekohayo> that "git: the basics" slideshow
<nekohayo> 277 slides!
<rick_777> Alex, what was your berlios username?
<mau5> alext
<nekohayo> (for contrast: the "bazaar for SVN users" )
<RigoCalleja> Rich: assign a research bazaar task to Alex?
<nekohayo> at least if you need help getting started with bazaar, I can give a hint or two, I've been using it extensively for a year
<nekohayo> (I was using svn before that, and cvs before that)
<mau5> ok, thanks
<rick_777> well, the bazaar research is optional. If you want to do it, Alex, go ahead.
<mau5> anyway, i put your link in my bookmarks
<rick_777> BTW, i just finished changing your permissions to read/write.
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> In a couple of days you'll be able to write to the repository.
<mau5> thank you
<rick_777> I guess this is all for now.
<rick_777> Any last thoughts?
<RigoCalleja> are you going to stay to help Lubomir Rich?
<rick_777> Yes, after we close the meeting.
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> This session is now closed.
<rick_777> *bang* :)
<RigoCalleja> :)
<RigoCalleja> thank you everyone for attending
<RigoCalleja> see you later
<brad_gar> I'm going to stick around also
<LubomirD> see you all
<mau5> have a nice remaining weekend :)