Friday, July 10, 2009

Is it dead yet? No. There is hope.

Hi everyone. Just wanted to remind you that I'm still willing to work on Saya. I've been through a terrible chain of depression and bad luck, but I've finally overcome it. I got a new job opportunity, and this one really looks promising.

I hope that soon my schedule will stabilize so I'll be able to work on Saya after nearly 4 months of inactivity.

If you want to read more about what has happened, please read the related entry on the unofficial blog.

Thanks for staying in touch.
- Rick.

Thursday, April 30, 2009

Project stalled for reasons beyond our control

Bad news. With my bad luck in finding a job, the current flu epidemic and having to deal with an unexpected depression (mostly based on my economic situation), I can't keep working on Saya until I get my life back.

So the project is stalled and the meetings are suspended until further notice (which I hope will be in a couple of months in the best case).

I hope to come back soon with good news.

Sincerely,
Rick.

Monday, April 6, 2009

Saya Developers' meeting #6 (28/03/2009) Summary of Activities

This is a brief summary about what has been discussed in the fifth Saya-VE developers meeting.

About the team:

* Agustin has not been seen since the last meeting. We're assumming that he just left the team.

* This happened after the meeting. I got an email from another volunteer wanting to join. I let him experiment with the latest snapshot of our current code in the meantime.

* Due to his good work so far, Alex was given write access to the SVN repository.

About the tasks:

* The Qt conversion is around 60% done. The welcome dialog is completed, the new project dialog layout is done (C++ implementation pending). The playback controls still need to be adapted into the video player.

* Tasks for Rick (me): Since I couldn't advance at all this month (workload / health reasons) I still have to convert the main window and the video playback controls.

* Tasks for Lubomir: Write the developers' guide for Windows (it needs to be changed as now we use Qt, not wxWidgets). He had some technical problems writing them, but he's working on it.

* Tasks for Brad: Get to compile Saya on Windows with Qt, and help Lubomir in doing so.

* Tasks for Alex: Study more Qt, play around with the code.

* Tasks for Rigo: Implement in C++ the new project dialog that he had designed; write a market-oriented "mission statement" document.

Other Issues worth discussing:

* Jeff found a blog entry about Video Editing. Basically we agreed with the blog entry in that there are currently not working user-friendly video editors.

About the next meeting:

* The next meeting will take place on Saturday, May 2, 2009, 11AM CDT (-0600).

Saya Developer's meeting #6 (28/03/2009) chat log


* Now talking on #saya-dev
<rick_777> This meeting is officially open.
<RigoCalleja> * BANG *
<rick_777> heh
<RigoCalleja> first task assigment status?
<rick_777> First of all, i'd like to apologize for my lack of work. This month I couldn't do anything. zip. nada. zero.
<rick_777> (I got too much work, then i got sick, then i went on vacations)
<RigoCalleja> you had the conversion to QT assigment
<rick_777> Well I guess that's still pending from my part, but I'll resume work this week :)
<rick_777> Rigo, what task was assigned to you?
<RigoCalleja> k
<RigoCalleja> new project dialog
<rick_777> status?
<RigoCalleja> status: done
<rick_777> Cool!
<rick_777> Have you uploaded to SVN yet?
<RigoCalleja> yup
<rick_777> ok... who's next?
<mau5> i'm done with the gmerlin document
<rick_777> Alright! Please send it to the mailing list.
<mau5> and that demo application; mixing bewteen qt and gmerlin
<rick_777> hmmm about the application, just mail us the source code (zipped)
<mau5> yes, it needs a review
<rick_777> oh wait, you're using gmerlin...
<rick_777> well send your code anyway.
<mau5> i send it few weeks ago
<rick_777> Good :)
<mau5> it's uploaded on the saya gmail group
<RigoCalleja> SeekerAll.tar.gz ?
<mau5> yes
<rick_777> Ok... (man, I feel disoriented after not doing anything for a while)
<RigoCalleja> don't worry
<RigoCalleja> you'll be back in business
<mau5> i will upload the document now
<RigoCalleja> Ok let's move on to the next team member
<LubomirD> Me: I'm still not done with the developers guide: I still could not compile Saya, so I could'n write a normal guide. I had a lot of mess with it.
<rick_777> Ok, I'll help you with it then
<LubomirD> Thank you
<rick_777> I'm afraid that we're stuck in a bottleneck and that bottleneck is finishing the Qt conversion.
<RigoCalleja> sort of
<brad_gar> I almost have saya compiled on windows, I think I have the wrong version of Qt as I'm getting a moc error or something to that effect
<RigoCalleja> but We're also making enablement progress
<rick_777> I guess that what we can do now is finish the conversion (and the dev. guide) and when we're finished, we'll mail you the new tasks, if any.
<brad_gar> just downloaded the latest from the sdk, not the 4.4.3 version
<mau5> @brad: try qt 4.4.3
<rick_777> Yes, it seems there are no problems with qt 4.5.
<RigoCalleja> Brad: feel free to join Lubomir and Rich if you need to
<brad_gar> k
<rick_777> I spoke with brad and his only problem so far is downloading and installing gettext and the libintl library on windows.
<brad_gar> got that working!
<rick_777> oh?
<rick_777> So you managed to compile Saya, or stumbled on another problem?
<brad_gar> yup
<rick_777> yup compile, or yup stumbled?
<brad_gar> now its telling me that the Qt moc is too different, so I think downloading the 4.4.3 version should fix that
<rick_777> hmmm
<rick_777> i guess you should install 4.4.3
<brad_gar> just ran out of time yesterday
<rick_777> 4.5 is out, but it didn't go mainstream yet.
<rick_777> we'll need some time before it's present in all repos.
<rick_777> linux distro repositories, i mean.
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> so for now we'll stick to 4.4.3
<rick_777> Well, I guess that's all we can do for now
<rick_777> (bummer)
<rick_777> now
<rick_777> I recall there were some issues worth discussing, right rigo?
<rick_777> something about a blog
<RigoCalleja> can you repeat your task assigment approach for these month Rich please?
<rick_777> Ok
<rick_777> our task assignment:
<nekohayo> goddamnit, I was at the restaurant O_o is the meeting over?
<LubomirD> you cando this with the moc problem :) instead: #elif Q_MOC_OUTPUT_REVISION != 59 you have to put #elif Q_MOC_OUTPUT_REVISION != 61
<rick_777> brad: please help lubomir compile on windows. I feel there's some potential synergy in you two
<rick_777> nekohayo: Not yet :)
<RigoCalleja> what's up Jeff
<brad_gar> will do!
<rick_777> lubomir: Go on with finishing the developer's guide.
<nekohayo> hey there folks :)
<LubomirD> yes
<rick_777> hi Jeff
<rick_777> Alex: I hate to say this, but i think that we're stuck and you have no pending jobs for now... you can still try to analyse the source :)
<nekohayo> hey there rick_777, RigoCalleja, and all others, sorry for being late
<RigoCalleja> not to worry
<rick_777> I guess it's the same for Rigo
<mau5> no problem
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> But hey, better have extra devs than having extra job and no devs :)
<RigoCalleja> can you give us feedback on the status of the conversion please?
<rick_777> Ok, the status of the conversion is... the same that it was last month with the exception of the New Project dialog.
<RigoCalleja> elaborate?
<rick_777> Ok...
<RigoCalleja> just as a reminder
<rick_777> let's see...
<rick_777> the debuglog is finished and operational.
<rick_777> the resources/effects panel is in progress, but the window / splitter is working, and it can be docked.
<RigoCalleja> anything else?
<rick_777> the enabling / disabling of menu items is nearly finished ( the labels menu is unfinished)
<rick_777> The Saving and Loading of window layout is finished and operational.
<rick_777> the video playback controls are working (the UI part) but we still need to incorporate the video output.
<rick_777> the timeline is at 0%, just as it was before the conversion :)
<RigoCalleja> OK if I can help you with some of that please let me know
<rick_777> the new project dialog...
<nekohayo> this is all in svn 272 I guess
<RigoCalleja> is it Rich?
<rick_777> i gues, let me see if i can update my SVN copy.
<rick_777> kdesvn
<rick_777> oops wrong window
<RigoCalleja> Ok Jeff you turn, what did you this month?
<nekohayo> uh, I flamed?
<RigoCalleja> we worked on a proposal for a vision document
<RigoCalleja> based on the basic unified process template
<RigoCalleja> and information from the mission document
<nekohayo> well, basically, Rigo worked on it
<rick_777> (Also, the new project dialog seems to be finished at designing, but it's not incorporated yet)
<rick_777> Before we go on to that document...
<RigoCalleja> are you taking it or passing that task to me?
<rick_777> Rigo, mind giving me a hand with the new project dialog? I'd like you to incorporate it into the source code (i.e. compile the UI file into a c++ file, modify the events so that a new project can be created using the UI)
<nekohayo> RigoCalleja: you mean the .doc you sent me?
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> ok, so what's about this doc
<RigoCalleja> yes that one Jeff
<rick_777> please update us
<nekohayo> rigo started writing a more marketing-oriented mission statement
<RigoCalleja> Jeff and I went through the mission document
<rick_777> cool
<RigoCalleja> exactly
<rick_777> but why .doc? why not opendocument?
<nekohayo> instead of a technical rebuttal of other approaches
<nekohayo> rick_777: I would have asked the same question :)
<nekohayo> but I guess it was not on purpose
<RigoCalleja> so we have only started working on it
* brad_gar has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<RigoCalleja> when we have something we'll share for comments
<nekohayo> RigoCalleja: I'm looking at the document right now
<rick_777> Ok. So, Rigo and Jeff, you keep working on that document. By the way...
<nekohayo> my take is that 1) you had all the essentials of it filled in nicely already 2) the feature list == the roadmap, no need to do it
<rick_777> you might find Google Docs interesting. You can work on the same document at the same time.
<nekohayo> so I thought it seemed ready
<RigoCalleja> good idea Rich
<nekohayo> yeah, I used google docs a lot. but then, as I said, I believe that document to be pretty much ready anyway
<rick_777> So I guess Rigo has a double task this month: Working on the New Project dialog...
<rick_777> and finishing that document.
<RigoCalleja> k
<RigoCalleja> In adition
<RigoCalleja> Jeff shared a link to a blog
* brad_gar has joined #saya-dev
<RigoCalleja> to a person that's is knowedgable about video editors
<brad_gar> back
<nekohayo> eugenia?
<RigoCalleja> she basically reaches the same conclusion as Rich
<RigoCalleja> exactly
<rick_777> welcome back brad
<RigoCalleja> that current GNU/Linux editors are hard to use
<nekohayo> not so sure that she reaches the same conclusions as rick.
<RigoCalleja> lack features
<rick_777> Rigo passed me the link... let me see if i have it around.... nope, lost it.
<nekohayo> oh, on that point yeah
<RigoCalleja> Jeff do you mind sharing to the list?
<nekohayo> I guess you meant http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2008/01/20/video-editor-mockup/
<rick_777> yes, that one
<nekohayo> eugenia is one of the founders of osnews.com and a Vegas user like me
<nekohayo> the mockup that she shows in that blog post is STRONGLY influenced by vegas
<rick_777> hmmm that means that if we get saya to work fine, and make it rock solid as she wants,
<rick_777> we could get a boost on publicity ;-)
<nekohayo> you'll have to beat pitivi and kdenlive to that game :)
<rick_777> for kdenlive i have no worries. It's not rock solid :P
<RigoCalleja> Jeff and I identified those projects as important contenders
<nekohayo> sure, but neither is saya-trunk ;)
<rick_777> What "worries" me is pitivi, with all the extra help they're really adding a lot of features
<rick_777> but competition is good :)
<rick_777> Also, I've been surfing around blogs, and the Openshot video editor (the other guy who started a project around the same time as me),
<rick_777> switched from GStreamer/GNonlin to MLT (same as kdenlive)
<nekohayo> well, that one didn't sound quite serious, but I haven't checked its progress lately
<rick_777> I guess the design choice to make Saya framework-independent was a good one.
<rick_777> Now we can be sure that gnonlin isn't reliable as a video editing framework.
<RigoCalleja> gnonlin?
<rick_777> A gstreamer add-on for video editing
<RigoCalleja> thnkx
<RigoCalleja> ok are there adittional comments?
<rick_777> Ok, I guess that is all for now... any comments?
<rick_777> heh, you beat me
<nekohayo> rick_777: and how can you be sure it isn't reliable?
<rick_777> Jeff: From the OpenShot author's comments about it
<nekohayo> in my case, it is more reliable than kdenlive ;) and I throw lots of bug reports/weird test cases at the devs
<rick_777> let me link you to it.
<nekohayo> sure
<rick_777> http://www.openshotvideo.com/2009/03/mlt-vs-gnonlin-lets-get-it-on.html
<nekohayo> pitivi is currently the only video editor in the world (except imovie) that can handle my camcorder's files
<rick_777> I guess that blog post is becoming a flamebait, which is good for analysing pros/cons from a 3rd person point of view.
<nekohayo> interesting
<nekohayo> the first comment is from the developer of pitivi and gnonlin
* nekohayo reads the blog post
<RigoCalleja> why don't you share your comments on the blog post to the list Jeff?
<nekohayo> *if* I have something relevant to say
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> Ok...
<rick_777> i guess there are no more comments for now
<RigoCalleja> one more
<RigoCalleja> team
<RigoCalleja> guy from india?
<rick_777> it seems his willpower is not enough to come to the meetings :)
<RigoCalleja> and Agustin from Spain?
<rick_777> same about him... haven't heard of him in the month.
<RigoCalleja> k
<RigoCalleja> no more comments here
<rick_777> but right now we're back to the 5 devs + 1 beta tester, and that's not bad
<rick_777> I think our team is complete for now.
<nekohayo> wait a sec
<rick_777> yes?
<nekohayo> ah, it's 23 PM in india. Thought it was later than that
<nekohayo> anyway
<rick_777> yes?
<nekohayo> reading through the blog post, to begin with, mp3 support works... if you uninstall the fluendo mp3 codec package in ubuntu (stupid thing. I bugged the pitivi devs about that, but for "political" reasons, they can't blacklist it). Second, diva never switched from gstreamer+gnonlin to mlt
<nekohayo> diva just *died* when the dev underwent burnout
<nekohayo> the rest is answered by bilboed
<rick_777> I see.
<RigoCalleja> one thing
<rick_777> Oh man, we have so much ahead of us. We still haven't got to the point of really editing videos...
<rick_777> but a long journey always starts with one step!
<nekohayo> ... ;)
<rick_777> Ok. Any more comments, anyone?
<RigoCalleja> one more
<RigoCalleja> Alex access to the repo
<rick_777> mind rephrasing that please?
<RigoCalleja> we were probably going to give him access this time
<rick_777> Oh
<rick_777> Right.
<rick_777> let me scroll back.
<nekohayo> rick_777: and what about this decentralized version control system migration ?
<mau5> do you mean git?
<rick_777> Jeff: Still pending, sorry.
<nekohayo> bazaar is on my mind
* nekohayo hates git for various reasons :)
<rick_777> yes, from Jeff's comments, bazaar is much more friendly than git
<nekohayo> this whole "commit access" thing sounds crazy when you are blocking other devs "because I'm still converting everything to QT myself"
<rick_777> wait, that wasn't the reason for blocking access...
<nekohayo> I thought it was part of the reason
<nekohayo> the other being the "prove your worth before getting access"
<rick_777> yes. And for that I'll give Alex write access.
<RigoCalleja> k
<nekohayo> in a DVCS, natural selection occurs. code happens. and when it's good, it is merged
<rick_777> Well, I still don't think it's the right moment to change the version control system.
<rick_777> sorry.
<nekohayo> your call
<RigoCalleja> I'll add a research task tough
<mau5> http://excess.org/article/2008/07/ogre-git-tutorial/
<mau5> good git overview..
<RigoCalleja> great thanks Alex
<mau5> i just heard about bazar, but dont know anything
* nekohayo has a huge .txt file of notes about the hoops he has to go through to switch branches/update a branch in git :)
<nekohayo> holy crap
<nekohayo> that "git: the basics" slideshow
<nekohayo> 277 slides!
<rick_777> Alex, what was your berlios username?
<mau5> alext
<nekohayo> (for contrast: the "bazaar for SVN users" http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrForSVNUsers )
<RigoCalleja> Rich: assign a research bazaar task to Alex?
<nekohayo> at least if you need help getting started with bazaar, I can give a hint or two, I've been using it extensively for a year
<nekohayo> (I was using svn before that, and cvs before that)
<mau5> ok, thanks
<rick_777> well, the bazaar research is optional. If you want to do it, Alex, go ahead.
<mau5> anyway, i put your link in my bookmarks
<rick_777> BTW, i just finished changing your permissions to read/write.
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> In a couple of days you'll be able to write to the repository.
<mau5> thank you
<rick_777> I guess this is all for now.
<rick_777> Any last thoughts?
<RigoCalleja> are you going to stay to help Lubomir Rich?
<rick_777> Yes, after we close the meeting.
<RigoCalleja> k
<rick_777> This session is now closed.
<rick_777> *bang* :)
<RigoCalleja> :)
<RigoCalleja> thank you everyone for attending
<RigoCalleja> see you later
<brad_gar> I'm going to stick around also
<LubomirD> see you all
<mau5> have a nice remaining weekend :)

Wednesday, March 4, 2009

Saya-VE developers' meeting #5 chat log


<rick_777> This meeting is officially open.
<LubomirD> Ok!
<rick_777> First of all, I'd like to congratulate those who joined.
<rick_777> Our new recruits are Brad Garrick (who is having connection problems but was about to join)
<mau5> thanks, glad to join you, for me it;s my first time
<LubomirD> thank you
<rick_777> , Lubomir Dobrovodsky and Alexandru Tirvea
<RigoCalleja> Rick: I guess it's Tirdea
<rick_777> I'd also like to congratulate Alexandru (can we call you Alex?) for his dedication and enthusiasm, and for helping me fix a bug
<mau5> yes , Tirdea is correct :-)
<rick_777> oops
<rick_777> Tirdea
<rick_777> my mistake
<rick_777> Now, let's get to business
<rick_777> As you can see, we're in the middle (or three quarters, actually) of our conversion from wxWidgets to Qt
<rick_777> so development per-se is stalled until we finish the conversion
<LubomirD> ok
<rick_777> this is the reason why there hasn't been a lot of development activity. Don't worry, things will pace up with time.
<rick_777> So, I'd like to ask who has been having troubles installing and compiling Saya
<LubomirD> I am trying to compile it on Windows XP and it is still not possible for me.
<mau5> i posted in a thread a small how-to about compilling Saya on a windows 2000
<rick_777> Lubomir: Have you been updating the source code on a daily basis?
<rick_777> from the SVN repository
<LubomirD> Yes
<rick_777> Ok. I think Alex managed to compile Saya on WinXP, right?
<mau5> yes
<rick_777> Please share, what did you have to do?
<mau5> first you have to install gettext
<RigoCalleja> Rick: Alex compiled it on Win 2k If I remember correctly
<rick_777> 2k is nearly the same as xp
<rick_777> there's not that much of a difference
<mau5> yes, i compilled on win2k but i think there are no significant differences between various wins
<mau5> yes
<rick_777> so what steps did you have to do? Set up environment variables? Change code?
<rick_777> project settings?
<LubomirD> Ok, I wil try to follow correctly the instructions of Alex, maybe I just misesd something
<rick_777> etc
<mau5> but as a small hint, take care to install gettext directly in the mingw directory
<rick_777> Speaking of compiling...
<LubomirD> Aha, ok, I will have to check this
<rick_777> I think you're the best person to do this task Lubomir
<rick_777> remember the Developers' guide that I wrote?
<LubomirD> yes
<rick_777> That one's designed for wxWidgets.
<rick_777> What do you think about rewriting it for Qt4 ?
<LubomirD> Thats a good task to do
<rick_777> you'll write the windows version, of course
<RigoCalleja> Rick: Btw the project's website still references wxwidgets
<rick_777> this way I can use the extra resources (you) while Alex, Rigo and I concentrate on getting the conversion finished
<LubomirD> Of course, I will do it
<rick_777> perfect
<rick_777> I will e-mail you the .odt
<LubomirD> Great
<rick_777> (You'll need to install OpenOffice.org )
<LubomirD> No problem, I have it
<RigoCalleja> Lubomir: or sun's odt plugin
<rick_777> great! :)
<RigoCalleja> lubomir: did I assign you a task in berlios?
<LubomirD> I'm using OOo 3 :)
<rick_777> perfect! * * * * *
<LubomirD> Rigo: I think no... I think I forgot to send you my profile - it is ld_orifiel
<rick_777> Now, about the tasks to be done
<RigoCalleja> Lubomir: Thanks I'll add you to the project
<rick_777> Rigo will start giving out tasks to people on developer.berlios.de
<LubomirD> Rigo: thank you
<rick_777> The official dev site is http://developer.berlios.de/projects/saya/
<rick_777> just in case you missed it.
<rick_777> no, wait
<rick_777> https://developer.berlios.de/projects/saya/
<rick_777> there. The https is *very* important.
<rick_777> Before we go on with the tasks, I'd like to give you a glimpse of how Saya code works.
<rick_777> on the SVN code, there are various directories:
<rick_777> saya/
<rick_777> saya/core/
<rick_777> ui/
<rick_777> ui/ui
<rick_777> ui/moc
<rick_777> plugins/
<rick_777> resources/
<rick_777> saya/ contains the library for editing the in-memory objects (clips, effects, etc)
<rick_777> saya/core contains the core routines: Multi threading, I/O, file access, etc.
<rick_777> ui/ contains the code for the GUI.
<rick_777> ui/ui contains the .ui.h files that are generated with Qt4-designer
<rick_777> (accessible in the menu Form -> View Code... then copied and pasted)
<rick_777> ui/moc contains the .moc.h files generated with the moc-qt4 commandline utility
<rick_777> these are the ones handling the events
<rick_777> The reason for generating the .ui and .moc files separately is so that we won't need the qt tools (only the libraries) to compile the source code.
<rick_777> this is a bit annoying but it's worth it, as it makes the code compatible with all makefile generators.
<rick_777> the resources/ directory contains the qt resources (also generated beforehand) in .rcc format
<rick_777> Lubomir, you may need to write about that in the Dev's guide, too
<LubomirD> Rick: I understand
<rick_777> resources/ also contains the .qcc files (these are the ones that get compiled into .rcc) and the images (usually .png or .jpg)
<rick_777> That's about the code paths
<rick_777> About the code structure:
<rick_777> what we call the "Core" is a set of classes and functions needed for low-level stuff. As I said, it's in the saya/core/ directory.
<rick_777> On top of the Core is the saya library (which isn't compiled as a library yet) for handling the objects.
<rick_777> The saya library contains some important classes:
<rick_777> VidProject (will have a project's info),
<rick_777> ProjectManager (which opens and saves projects)
<rick_777> PresetManager (takes care of presets)
<rick_777> and PlaybackManager. This is the most recent one, and will take care of video/audio playback objects
<rick_777> basically, we have a 3-tiered system:
<rick_777> CORE / Objects / UI
<rick_777> this is to keep the code portable.
<rick_777> I've also added into the core specialized functions for saya-specific event handling
<rick_777> (which don't depend on Qt or wxwidgets event model)
<rick_777> string handling
<rick_777> etc.
<rick_777> Right now, what we're doing is converting the wxWidgets code in the ui/ directory to use the Qt functions.
<rick_777> What took me the most effort was adapting the event handling stuff, wxWidgets and Qt have completely different event models. But you won't have to worry about it, it's finished.
<rick_777> As soon as we finish the conversion, we have some pending tasks:
<rick_777> * Finishing the playback engine so that it reproduces a hardcoded animation into the screen
<rick_777> * And using 3rd party codec libraries to read .avi files, etc.
<rick_777> But right now, we need only to worry about the UI
<rick_777> This will be a very important step, because we'll get back to the UI later: We'll need to drag and drop clips on the timeline and do all kinds of fun stuff with them.
<rick_777> So we need to eat and breathe Qt
<rick_777> Any questions so far?
<RigoCalleja> "eat & breath" lol
<RigoCalleja> Rick: No questions here
<LubomirD> No questions right now
<mau5> it's ok for me
<rick_777> perfect.
<rick_777> I guess this is all for now. Let's summarize.
<rick_777> Tasks for Lubomir: Get to compile Saya on Windows with Qt, and rewrite the developers' guide for Windows.
<LubomirD> got it
<rick_777> Tasks for Rigo: Convert the New Project dialog to Qt
<rick_777> Tasks for me: Convert the rest of the main window to Qt
<rick_777> Tasks for Brad: Get to compile Saya on Windows with Qt, and start learning Qt and do some practice projects separately.
<rick_777> brb
<RigoCalleja> Rick: Alex is missing
<mau5> i'm here
<mau5> :)
<rick_777> Oh
<mau5> waiting for my tasks
<rick_777> also, everyone please download the Qt Assistant
<RigoCalleja> Alex: task assigment I mean
<rick_777> so you can have an offline-help.
<rick_777> Alex: I'm still wondering what tasks I can give to you...
<RigoCalleja> Rick: remember you assigned the gmerlin task to Alex
<rick_777> Ah yes. I guess you'll have to stick to research.
<RigoCalleja> Rick:it's on BerliOS
<mau5> yes
<mau5> last week i just played with qt/gmerlin
<rick_777> perfect!
<mau5> trying to seek a avi and rendering the frame in a QPixmap
<mau5> it's almost done...
<rick_777> Okay then :)
<mau5> the frame meaning a .bmp in the first stage
<rick_777> keep up the good work. When you finish I'll see if i can give you another task.
<mau5> :P
<rick_777> Also, help Brad and Lubomir with any Saya compilation doubts they have
<mau5> sure
<rick_777> I guess that closes the tasks section.
<rick_777> Any other questions / comments?
<RigoCalleja> what about agustin and the guy from India?
<rick_777> Agustin had told me in a chat 2 weeks ago that he didn't have much time to connect on Saturdays
<rick_777> And there was a guy from India who wanted to join the project
<rick_777> I told him to join the chat
<rick_777> And obviously, he's not in here :)
<RigoCalleja> Rick: ok
<rick_777> Generally I'm wary of new recruits
<rick_777> especially if they don't show up to the meetings
<rick_777> by the way, Alex. Depending on your performance this month,
<rick_777> we'll give you write access to the repository.
<rick_777> :)
<mau5> ok, i'll do my best
<rick_777> Any other questions?
<RigoCalleja> Rick: no questions here
<LubomirD> no...
<rick_777> perfect.
<rick_777> This meeting is now closed.
<rick_777> *bang* :)
<LubomirD> Thank you all for this meeting and have a nice weekend!
<mau5> have a nice weekend you too
<rick_777> you too
<RigoCalleja> Same to everyone

Saya developers meeting #5 (2009-02-28): Summary of Activities

This is a brief summary about what has been discussed in the fifth Saya-VE developers meeting.

About the team:

* Four new developers joined:
- Alexandru Tirdea from Romania. Alexandru has been very active since the day he joined, and has already helped me to tackle a few bugs. It's most probable that the next month he'll be given write access to the repository.

- Lubomir Dobrovodsky, from Slovakia
- Agustin Rubio from Spain (who couldn't attend the meeting)
- Brad Garrick from the U.S. Brad couldn't connect to the meeting on IRC but was online at the time.

* Rigo has been promoted to project administrator. His management skills are impressive, and he keeps the team in a fast pace.

About the tasks:

* To help the newcomers get to know Saya a bit better, I gave an explanation about how Saya's code is written and organized.

* The Qt conversion is around 50% done. The welcome dialog is completed, the playback controls were done by Rigo and I'll adapt them to remake the video player.

* Tasks for me: I will be working on converting the main window and the video playback controls. If I finish soon, I'll go on fixing the video playback framework.

* Tasks for Rigo: Convert the New Project dialog to Qt

* Tasks for Brad: Get to compile Saya on Windows with Qt, and start learning Qt and do some practice projects separately.

* Tasks for Lubomir: Write the developers' guide for Windows (it needs to be changed as now we use Qt, not wxWidgets)

* Tasks for Alex: Finish the research and report on gmerlin and codec libraries.

* Tasks for Agustin: Learn Qt, I guess (we ran out of tasks :P )

About the next meeting:

* The next meeting will take place on Saturday, 28 March 2009, 11AM CDT (-0600).

Sunday, February 22, 2009

Screenshots from the Qt conversion

Hello everyone! I'm glad to inform you that the Qt conversion has achieved its "critical mass", and we're starting to see the first fruits.

Ladies and gentlemen... Allow me to introduce you to... Saya in Qt!


Welcome dialog


File open dialog


Main Window with (partially) the main menu

Of course, there's still work to be done like enabling/disabling the menus, updating the recent projects menu, and of course, the playback window. But at least we're progressing! :)

Sunday, February 8, 2009

Four new developers joined!

Great news everyone! Since last December, the number of volunteers who applied for membership is four.

The new recruits are:

Lubomir Dobrovodsky, from Slovakia
Alexandru Tirdea, from Romania, I think.
Agustin Rubio from Spain
Brad Garrick from the U.S.

Welcome to the team, guys! Note: You're currently under probation until you earn your worth as a developer. Then you shall be given write-access to the repository. Until then, changes will be submitted as patches.

Saturday, January 31, 2009

Saya developers meeting #4 (2009-01-30): Summary of Activities

This is a brief summary about what has been discussed in the fourth Saya-VE developers meeting.

About the team:
* Javier Galicia and AbsoluteDestiny were kicked out due to inactivity (and not answering e-mails).
* We have two new volunteers: Alexandru Tirdea, who unfortunately couldn't go to the meeting - but has been working on Video display on Linux, and Lubomir Dobrovodsky, a longtime Java programmer who's been incursioning in C++.

About the tasks:

* The most important task so far is the Qt conversion. Without finishing it, we can't go on. On the bright side, the main menu items are already present in the main Qt window (altho they're all enabled by default and the checkbox items behavior hasn't been programmed yet). As I haven't finished determining what changes need to be done to the code, other areas of development are stalled (I really need to hurry up with this).
* Work on the playback framework has been stalled (see above).
* Lubomir is going to train his C++ and Qt skills so that when I need him to add features and
* Rigo is going to research about the new video editor from Apple (iMovie, I think) and is going to send me some links to post on the "research" section of the website (which needs to be polished, of course).
* Jeff has suggested using the bazaar distributed version control system to speed up development. We discussed about it a bit, but unfortunately I have very little free time right now. But I'm considering adopting it.

About the next meeting:

Due to people from Eastern Europe joining, we've changed the meetings to the Saturday following the last Friday of the month (which most of the time will be the last Saturday of the Month), at 11AM CDT.

Saya developer's meeting #4 (2009-01-30) chat log


* rick_777 has changed the topic to: meeting tonight at 8PM
* nekohayo has joined #saya-dev
* rick_777 gives channel operator status to nekohayo
<rick_777> :)
<rick_777> oops wrong window
* Rigoberto__ has joined #saya-dev
<Rigoberto__> good evening
<Rigoberto__> sorry I'm late
<rick_777> Ok
<rick_777> brb
<Rigoberto__> Hi Jeff
<nekohayo> hello there
<Rigoberto__> what's up?
<rick_777> Ok, let's officially open the meeting
<Rigoberto__> cool
<rick_777> all agree?
<Rigoberto__> q: did you receive communication from the two new devs?
<rick_777> today, nope. But they said they would attend
<rick_777> maybe (again) there was some timezone problem :P
<rick_777> OK, so if there are no objections, the meeting is officially open.
<rick_777> *bang*
<rick_777> Now, it's been 2 months since the last meeting and a lot of things have happened
<rick_777> let me check the blog so I don't forget any.
<rick_777> There have been a lot of changes in the core
<rick_777> we have a new string class,
<rick_777> we have plans to migrate to CMake... (once I get Qt working)
<rick_777> the playback framework is almost working...
<rick_777> more core advances...
<rick_777> http://saya-dev.blogspot.com/2008_12_01_archive.html
* LubomirD has joined #saya-dev
<rick_777> WELCOME!
<LubomirD> Hello to all am I late?
<Rigoberto__> Howdy
<rick_777> yes, but the other developer was late too :P
<rick_777> so we started 10 mins ago
<rick_777> Alright, before we start talking about you, let me give again a summary of events that happened during December and January
<rick_777> http://saya-dev.blogspot.com/2008_12_01_archive.html
<rick_777> * New lightweight string class
<rick_777> * Migration to CMake proposed (still pending)
<rick_777> * Playback framework nearly finished - but stalled for the Qt conversion
<LubomirD> Ok great
<rick_777> * Qt conversion about halfway done :)
<Rigoberto__> halfway?
<rick_777> it's a rough approximation
<Rigoberto__> you did come up with an estimate!
<rick_777> +/- 50% :P
<Rigoberto__> cool
<rick_777> actually it might be around 30 or 40
<rick_777> but that's better than nothing :)
<LubomirD> yes of course :)
<Rigoberto__> I believe percentages doesn't work for software
<rick_777> i believe that, too, but the public needs an estimated figure ;-)
<Rigoberto__> but this is dev meeting ;p
<rick_777> at least the welcome dialog and the main menu have been converted
<Rigoberto__> what's left?
<rick_777> everything else
<rick_777> re-do the playback controls
<rick_777> implement the menu events
<rick_777> implement the menu items disabling on-request
<rick_777> and everything else that I hadn't done yet while in wx
<Rigoberto__> k
<rick_777> *AHEM* going back to the events
<rick_777> two people offered to join,
<rick_777> Lubomir,
<rick_777> and ...
<Rigoberto__> (papers noise)
<rick_777> Alexandru Tirdea, who I assume couldn't attend the meeting
* LubomirD_ has joined #saya-dev
<rick_777> whoa
<rick_777> what happened
* rick_777 has kicked LubomirD from #saya-dev (rick_777)
<rick_777> hello?
<rick_777> Did you get disconnected?
<LubomirD_> yes i am here
<rick_777> ok
<LubomirD_> No
<LubomirD_> I dont know wha thappened
<rick_777> Just be careful
<LubomirD_> yes
<rick_777> you don't want to get cloned and banned by the irc server on accident
<rick_777> try to keep only one window open
<LubomirD_> ok
<rick_777> Also, since it's already 9PM, the time for the people who were about to be kicked has expired.
<rick_777> Say goodbye to Javier Galicia and AbsoluteDestiny
<rick_777> total contributions to the project: Zero
<LubomirD_> so we start
<rick_777> Out with the old, in with the new.
<rick_777> Lubomir, what time is it there?
<LubomirD_> 4.00 AM
<Rigoberto__> Slovakia?
<LubomirD_> Yes :)
<rick_777> wow
<rick_777> you really put a lot of effort in there. That shows commitment
<Rigoberto__> we should definitely reschedule the meetings for morning america afernoon europe
<LubomirD_> Thats the reason I am late... I am sorry I was sleeping too much
<rick_777> maybe we'll move the next meetings to 9PM, is that ok?
<Rigoberto__> what about 10AM on saturday?
<rick_777> that'll give you an additional hour to sleep
<rick_777> 10AM?
<Rigoberto__> 10AM Central
<Rigoberto__> GMT -6
<rick_777> How about 11?
<rick_777> at 10 I'm usually eating breakfast :P
<LubomirD_> And to me it will be?
<rick_777> 6PM
<rick_777> you're 7 hours ahead of us
<Rigoberto__> GMT + 1
<LubomirD_> Aha, It would be ok
<Rigoberto__> is that ok with you Jeff?
>nekohayo< CTCP PING
* Ping reply from nekohayo: ? second(s)
<rick_777> Ok while Jeff responds, tell us more about yourself, Lubomir
<nekohayo> you need to mention my nickname, otherwise xchat doesn't notify me of messages
<rick_777> Oh
<rick_777> ok
* nekohayo reads
<rick_777> so, are you Ok with 11AM saturdays?
<nekohayo> what timezone?
<rick_777> yours
<rick_777> no wait
<rick_777> mine
<rick_777> 11AM CDT
<Rigoberto__> correct
<nekohayo> yeah, no prob I guess, I get up at 6-7
<rick_777> perfect.
<rick_777> New meetings will take place 11AM on the saturdays after the last friday of the month
<LubomirD_> Great
<rick_777> (yes that sounds complicated but please bear with me)
<nekohayo> I'd rely on you to update the google calendar for that :)
<rick_777> ow, my weakness
<nekohayo> so that it shows up on my calendar ;)
<rick_777> Ok. I'll try
<rick_777> remind me to update the calendar if I forget
<Rigoberto__> or an email to the list?
<rick_777> ^^;
<rick_777> yeah that works, too :)
<LubomirD_> :)
<rick_777> Lubomir, are you on the list already?
<nekohayo> you do know that you can set recurring events, right?
<LubomirD_> Yes I am
<LubomirD_> I am on the list
<rick_777> I deleted Javier Galicia now that I was there
<rick_777> hey, Alexander also joined the list
<rick_777> :)
<rick_777> maybe next meeting we'll see him
<rick_777> So, Lubomir
<Rigoberto__> why don't you set up the recurring event for the meetings now?
<rick_777> eh?
<Rigoberto__> I'm looking at the calendar now
<rick_777> Oh
<rick_777> I'll set up one
<rick_777> thanks for the info
<LubomirD_> So I am 25 years old
<LubomirD_> I am a professional Java programmer at Accenture
<rick_777> yes, tell us more about yourself
<LubomirD_> I've been working there for 2,5 years right nnow
<Rigoberto__> I used to work for Andersen Consulting (Accenture's former name)
<LubomirD_> Yes? That was pretty long time ago, not?
<Rigoberto__> Yeah! 1998-1999
<rick_777> ok
<LubomirD_> ... and I have also some little experience with C++
<rick_777> great, tell us more about it
<LubomirD_> I am programming some little home projects to learn more about C++
<rick_777> cool
<LubomirD_> and I made a little game for school project
<rick_777> Okay. Now, let's do this. Try to make some GUI projects using Qt.
<rick_777> and Code::Blocks IDE.
<rick_777> most of the work we'll do at Saya (after dealing with the codec / encoding stuff) will be the UI
<LubomirD_> Ok, I am learning Qt from the book about Qt 4 so I have no problem with it
<rick_777> so we need people to work on the timeline, buttons, controls, and all that
<rick_777> great! :)
<rick_777> Well, for now that's all you need to do because I still haven't finished the Qt conversion
<rick_777> and until I get things clear, I'm afraid I can't give directions for now
<rick_777> if we were in the military, the order would be "regroup!"
<rick_777> :)
<LubomirD_> :)
<Rigoberto__> lol
<rick_777> Hopefully I can have the conversion finished by the next meeting.
<LubomirD_> Do you have some ideas about how it should look?
<rick_777> Have you seen the screenshots on the website?
<rick_777> Nearly Identical, but with Qt :)
<LubomirD_> Yes
<LubomirD_> Ok, I will start with it
<rick_777> eh?
<nekohayo> rick_777: another advantage of using a decentralized VCS
<nekohayo> is that you could do all your QT switch stuff in a special branch, while others work in parallel on the core or whatever
<rick_777> Lubomir: I just hope you didn't misinterpret me. I meant: Work on personal "hello world" projects for now
<rick_777> until I get the main project fully working on Qt. Then you'll join and fix bugs / add features
<LubomirD_> And do you want the GUI to be made in Qt designer or handcoded?
<Rigoberto__> Jeff's raised and interesting point
<rick_777> You can try both... I'm designing the main window using the Qt designer.
<LubomirD_> Ok, thanks
<rick_777> Ok, so I guess the Qt conversion topic gets settled for now.
<rick_777> As Lubomir's joining.
<rick_777> You're now officially a member of the team. Welcome! :D
<rick_777> Now, onto Jeff's suggestion.
<LubomirD_> Thank You!
<rick_777> Using a decentralized version control system.
<rick_777> I like the idea, but I don't want to try out too much new stuff at the same time.
<Rigoberto__> Lubomir: Don't forget to send Rick you profile
<rick_777> I'm having a hard enough time with Qt already
<LubomirD_> ok I will
<Rigoberto__> Lubomir: is Lubomir your name or nick?
<rick_777> After the conversion's finished, we can discuss the usage of a DVCS.
<LubomirD_> name
<rick_777> Ok
<Rigoberto__> k
<rick_777> e-mail me your profile so I can add you to the webpage
<rick_777> Also, I'll need you
<rick_777> to get a sourceforge account
<rick_777> and a berlios account
<rick_777> the sourceforge account is for public relations
<rick_777> the berlios will be for submitting patches and commits, etc.
<LubomirD_> Ok, I understand, I will handle it
<rick_777> Ok.
<Rigoberto__> Rick: but I guess Jeff's point has to do progress management
<rick_777> Let's see... what's next?
<rick_777> Oh yeah. Lubomir, were you the one I asked about the project's mascot?
<LubomirD_> Yes I already asked my friends, I am waiting for their reply
<nekohayo> rick_777: so you're saying we should wait for a long work in progress to be finished before actually using a tool that allows you to manage just that?
<nekohayo> (see the irony?)
<LubomirD_> They are good experienced manga drawers
<rick_777> nekohayo: Yes, I can see the irony...
<rick_777> I'll try to be fast...
<rick_777> Ok, tell you what. I'll begin studying DVCS tools, but I don't promise anything quick.
<rick_777> Also, the job's been keeping me offline and tired
<Rigoberto__> I've done branches in clearcase and tfs
<Rigoberto__> no subversion tough
<rick_777> hmmmmmmmm
<LubomirD_> I understand that, I have also much work
<nekohayo> subversion is madness for branches and such, it is not a decentralized VCS
<nekohayo> it's in a completely different league
<rick_777> Ok.
<rick_777> So, in summary:
<rick_777> * Lubomir will work on learning Qt
<rick_777> * I'll work on finish adapting the code to Qt
<rick_777> AND learn a DVCS.
<rick_777> * Rigo will help me with the video playback controls (this time in Qt)
<rick_777> while Jeff.... keeps giving suggestions and feedback ^^;
<rick_777> which is no small feat, of course.
<rick_777> I guess that concludes our meeting. Anything else?
<Rigoberto__> one comment
<rick_777> Please share.
<Rigoberto__> or suggestion
<Rigoberto__> Mac release a new version of their video editor
<Rigoberto__> released
<rick_777> Oh
<Rigoberto__> since UI is top priority for Saya
<nekohayo> imovie?
<rick_777> we should copy it
<rick_777> right?
<Rigoberto__> I saw some pictures of it. It looks very user friendly
<rick_777> excellent!
<rick_777> Ok, Rigo, this is your new task: Collect ALL the information you can get on iMovie
<Rigoberto__> I don't remember the name
<rick_777> or whatever it's called
<Rigoberto__> k
<rick_777> video links, screenshots, tutorials, papers, etc.
<Rigoberto__> :)
<rick_777> and we'll post it on the "research" section.
<Rigoberto__> cool
<rick_777> Anything else, guys?
<Rigoberto__> did you decide what to do with the first donation?
<rick_777> oh - no, I haven't decided yet.
<rick_777> I guess it's still there, sitting as a "symbolic" donation
<rick_777> :P
<LubomirD_> :)
<Rigoberto__> so what about Alexandru?
<rick_777> Do you suggest me to donate it to the FSF?
<rick_777> Alexandru hasn't answered yet. But I have the feeling we'll hear about him... soon.
<Rigoberto__> since we need developers so badly
<rick_777> yes, we do
<Rigoberto__> I suggest we use it to hire a few programmer hours
<rick_777> i doubt $10 dollars will be of any use
<Rigoberto__> so what do you know about the donator?
<rick_777> he makes Anime Music Videos. Made one for AMV Hell 3 (or 4) i think.
<Rigoberto__> Interesting
<rick_777> Yeah. Anything else?
<rick_777> questions, doubts, suggestions
<LubomirD_> one comment...
<nekohayo> hiring programmers with that donation: *facepalm.jpg*
<rick_777> Lubomir?
<LubomirD_> did you see the Qt developer?
<Rigoberto__> I've heard in India a programmer makes 1000 bugs a year
<Rigoberto__> through some classes specs at elance
<Rigoberto__> just tought could work
<nekohayo> you'd have more luck buying a python book for working on pitivi or a cup of coffee to work on kdenlive, if you depend on that
<rick_777> Lubomir: Which Qt developer?
<LubomirD_> Sorry -Qt Creator - you can code in it and it has integrated Qt designer
<rick_777> Hmmmmm
<LubomirD_> It is in beta relase, but it will befinished and open source soon
<rick_777> Well, I don't want to rely on a specific software
<LubomirD_> Ok
<rick_777> Also, I'm not very fond of Qt's approach (preprocessing files before compiling them).
<rick_777> I like to have 100% C/C++ so I can modify it.
<LubomirD_> I understand
<rick_777> but use what makes you feel most comfortable (note: You'll end up having to use CodeBlocks, since it's our official tool)
<LubomirD_> Yes, I am programming most time in Code Blocks :)
<rick_777> but well, that's what programming is: Learning :)
<rick_777> Ok. I guess that's the last question for today.
<LubomirD_> yes :)
<rick_777> And guess what, it's an hour since the meeting was started.
<rick_777> So this meeting is officially closed.
<rick_777> *bang*
<LubomirD_> Good bye!
<Rigoberto__> bye bye

Thursday, January 8, 2009

We need a mascot!

While I'm busy creating Saya's new skin, I think it's time to create a mascot.

Unfortunately, I'm a terrible drawer. So I invite anyone with sufficient drawing skills and a good Otaku background to help us.

As a benevolent dictator (grin), I will define what mascot we'll have.

First of all, it needs to be a girl.
Second, it needs to be an anime girl (since Saya is a japanese name).
Third - she needs to be chibi - we'll follow Pixia's example.

Here are some of the features I'd like the mascot to have:

Name: The mascot's will be "Saya" (the mascot would be the software, following the tradition of the OS-Tans ;-)

Hair: She needs to have short hair - not too short, or we could be plagiarizing an existing anime Saya ;-). A bit longer than Kuchiki Rukia's should suffice. Maybe even longer, but not below the elbows. It needs not to be curly.

Head size: The head needs to have a reasonable size (NO powerpuff girls please).

Here are some examples more or less of what I want (caramelldansen):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX6e7sO1ss0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdUT0gWqKnU

The bodies need to be a little smaller. Something like this (pinky's), but keep the caramelldansen face shapes.

Edit (11:14PM): I think I found what I want. School Rumble's alternate ending 1 shows some perfectly-proportioned chibi girls ^_^. Of special attention is Tsukamoto Yakumo at 1:00. The head isn't overly huge, and the body is still well-defined.

Note that I chose the chibi-size so that the mascot can fit in a square space. But a little taller (not taller than the Caramelldansen figures) is perfectly acceptable, and even desired. Try to choose a middle ground if you can.

Eyes: Blue.

Nose: As all bishoujo characters - thin and pretty.

Dress: She could be wearing a kendo outfit (to honor her name), or a movie director outfit. Since Saya is virtual, you could give her a tron-like outfit that would turn into other outfits ;-) A kimono wouldn't be bad, either - but don't make it pink, it doesn't fit the character.

Breast size: Not too large, but not too small, either.

Constitution: Not too athletic, but not too thin, either.

Mouth: Not "X-3" styled mouths. Normal mouths, please.

Attitude: More like a cute smiling girl. Innocent, but intelligent. Not a joker, and definitely NOT a tsundere! (But she's allowed to get upset -.-# once in a while). But she needs to look cute at all times.

Here's an example smile that suits Saya perfectly: Wikipe-Tan (just the smile, not the body)

The rest is up to your imagination (just don't copy existing anime characters, please!).

Also, we need the character designer to be available for future redesigns and all that, so it requires commitment (or maybe we could choose someone else later, but oh well).

Any help will be appreciated. The winner designer will obviously appear in the software's credits!
^_^

Monday, January 5, 2009

It's Official: We're moving to Qt4!

SAYA-VE OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT
=============================

We're disposing wxWidgets in favor of Qt4.

(End of announcement)

Unofficial comment by Rick.
===========================

I finally made up my mind. After an e-mail conversation with one of the VLC developers, I was told that they submitted quite a few bug reports to wxWidgets, and they were all dismissed. I was also told that wxWidgets was very difficult to work with, and recommended to work with GTK, QT, or anything _else_ (wow, is wxWidgets that bad?).

And my experience confirms it.

Now, I tried the QT4 dialog designer, and once you get the hang of it (you need to use a right-click menu to put all the controls in a layout, there's no standard button for that), it's a bliss. But is it compatible with GPLv3? Version 4.3.4 and up are. Hurray! :)

Sigh, so here goes YET ANOTHER month of changing existing code for arbitrary reasons. I'm lucky I had already adapted a lot of code from wxWidgets ;-).

I'll close this announcement with a famous quote:

"Chance favors the prepared mind".
Louis Pasteur